Truck or SUV, full size or compact

[Onestep]

Ok peeps, need some input.
We are going to have to replace the car (Malibu Maxx) in the near future. We have a full size Tahoe (2WD) as our other vehicle.
The Maxx averaged 26-27 mpg, while the Tahoe gets about 17. The wife typically drives the Tahoe due to her work being much closer to home. I drive the other due to a 76 mile round trip every day.
We want at least one vehicle with 4WD so the new one would need to have that. Plus it would be nice to have a towing capacity of about 3500#, but the Tahoe can handle that.
I like the idea of this one being a truck as we have the suv covered.
The advantage of the suv is that all the cargo can be safefully stored within the vehicle and the seating is better.
The advantage to the truck is you can just pile the crap in the back but seating is limited unless you get a crew cab but that reduces the bed area. There will typically only be us two so seating is not a huge priority.

We cannot afford new so we have looked at Jeep Cherokees (not the the Grand Cherokees) even though they are typically older but there have been some nice ones around and they can be substantially modified.
For smaller trucks we've looked at the Ford Ranger models and Tacoma, mainly extended cabs. But the price of the Tacomas may be out of our range.
The tough part is most everything averages less than 20mpg (and closer to 17) unless you can find a 4 cyl. but they typically don't have 4WD (not that I have been able to find).

Any suggestions on higher mileage vehicles I may be missing or should I be leaning towards a full size as the mileage isn't that much less?

[slowz1k]

I like the Cherokee idea a lot. They have been around for a long time, haven't changed much design wise, and aftermarket as well as OEM parts are plentiful. They are VERY capable in most off-road environments, and can be built to handle most any terrain.
The only cons to the cherokee that I can think of is that the gas mileage isn't that great, and some people don't like the Uni-Body design, which eliminates the possiblity of a body lift.
The V-6 needs to be avoided at ALL costs.
Look for the I-6 4.0 HO. It is an awesome power plant! They tend to start leaking at the main seal after about 90,000 to 110,000 miles, but will still run forever as long as you keep the oil topped off (The seal replacement is a pretty easy 3 hour job for most shade tree mechanics)

[Sniper-T]

You can order a Tacoma in 4cyl, but no, they typically don't stock them. AND the 4cyl's are typically 2wd unless special ordered as well

I've had toys in both 4 and 6 cyls, all in 4wd, and there is not much appreciable difference in milage between one to the other. With a load, or in hills, the 4cyl was actually worse.

Toy's are not known for their mileage, with 17 being about normal.

That said, NOTHING touches the reliability of a Toy, or the resale value.

-Happy Toy owner since 1993. (4 trucks - over 2 million total miles)

[Onestep]

Thats part of my dilema Sniper, I like the Toy's but the MPG suck, especially for what's considered a "small" truck.
Plus they REALLY like them on the resale market. New is out of the question for us.
And Slow, I would only consider the 4.0 I-6. I had one a long time ago and it was a great motor.

[Sniper-T]

I've never bought a new truck, in fact, the newest one was 10 years old when I bought it. If you can find something about that old with around 100 K, you'll have a solid truck for a decent price

[Onestep]

I asssumed you didn't Sniper, I was referencing "ordering" one with the 4Cyl-4WD option, sorry.

[bacpacker]

I second the Toyota's. I have had 4 smaller trucks, pre Tacoma models from 1984 to 1994. All had well over 200k on them when I sold them. They all got 20+mpg with the 22R 4cyl engine and 5 spd. More recently have had 2 Tundra's. The first was one with the 4.7l engine and would get 20mpg on the highway. My latest one, a 2008 with the 5.7l will get 18-20 if I rally baby it on the interstate. But around town 14-16 is the best. Other than one of the older one was 2wd. All but the first Tundra was long beds.

I spent very little in repairs over the years and in total are well over a million miles on them. I wouldn't hesitate to take off anywhere in any of them. I would love to find a 86 or older Toy PU pre fuel injection 4x4.. I had 2 of those in 2wd and both got better than 28MPG around town, over 30 on the hwy..

I assume you want a newer model truck. IMO I would take a 1st gen Tundra. Mine got better gas mileage and is a somewhat smaller truck size wise. Not very much less than a tacoma and more available power. That assumes you will not be towing more than 7500lbs. I would have kept mine if I didn't need more tow capacity. Personally I prefer a truck to a SUV. While each has it's advantages, but a truck will haul a great deal more. And like you said, you already have one SUV.

[Sniper-T]

I asssumed you didn't Sniper, I was referencing "ordering" one with the 4Cyl-4WD option, sorry.

Because they have been aroun as an option, means that they are around. start checking online, they can be found!

BP, I hear ya! my first Toy was an '84 R22 4x4. I sold it to a buddy's kid with over 500,000 miles on it, an he put another 200,000 before the body fell completely off of it. He pulled the motor/drivetrain out and tossed it into an ice racer and drove it for another two years, then tore that apart and built a baja buggy around it. Last I heard he had 920 000 miles, and was replacing the original head gasket.

In Canadian-speak, that's almost 1,500,000 km and still going!

I love Toys!

[Possom]

I would try to go with the 1985 and older Toyota pickup 4x4. I have a couple of them and they are great little trucks. The reason I say 1985 and older in 1986 Toyota switched to an independent front suspension. The solid front axle is stronger and more reliable and much easier to work on. The 22r engine with easily run for 300,000 miles if taken care of. There are a lot of modifications that can be done to these trucks with readily available aftermarket parts. A 3inch lift with 31 inch tires and a good winch on the front is a good place to start. If shtf while u r 70+ miles from home I would want a Toyota to depend on.

[The Stig]

Different train of thought....

What about a Rav4 or Highlander? They get decent millage (with v6 Rav4 I still get 23-25 mpg on the highway after 130,000miles) and offer limited but decent internal storage for supplies and gear. The Rav4 has both a 4 and 6 cylinder and both 2wd and 4wd options. I have a 2007 Sport v6 4x4 and have loved it.

The limit will be, of course, a loss of towing capacity. You aren't towing 3000lbs with a Rav4. IIRC I think I can tow about 800 to 1000lbs max assuming the car itself is empty. Don't know about highlanders but I doubt they'd be much more.

Off road capability is suspect as well but you at least have *some* capabilities to leave the road. I've plowed my Rav4 across muddy farm fields, 2' of snow & ice in Indiana and Mississippi sandy dirt roads with little issue.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you. Mrs Stig drives a gas guzzling Nissan Armada. We really like it but when she makes the 20 mile run to the coast she's started taking mine to stretch the gas budget. I'd love to get a Taco but the price has just gotten ridiculous and used isn't any better. I've started eying the FJ Cruiser....hard. As in..."The Stig Wants One".

[Onestep]

All input appreciated. I like the FJ Cruiser too Stig but haven't looked at them real hard.
And you aren't kidding on the Taco used market, it's off the chart pricing.
I'd really like to have sufficent towing capacity in case the Tahoe takes a crap so i need to steer away from the Rav & Highlander.
Plus at 6'2" I'm not sure of the leg room in them. I get cramped easily.
While I'd love to find a pre-86 'yote, I'm afraid they would be worn down, trashed from off roading by some teenager and not dependable enough for me as a daily driver with the miles I drive.

[bacpacker]

I love the FJ but from the reports I have read their has been some reliabilty issues suspention wise in the first couple model years. Rthey would not take much abuse at all. Newer models I haven't kept up with but i suspect they have been improved.

An older truck most likely would require a overhaul. Good luck in the search.

[Onestep]

BC, that's my understanding on the FJ as well, some issues with the earlier models.
I'll keep on researching and looking.

[slowz1k]

Another angle you may consider... If you did happen to come accross a Toyota (or anything for that matter) that had been beat on.... And if you could get it for a song and dance.... You could always toss a crate engine in it, and call it new.
Of course a lot would depend on cosmetics and drive train, but most people with a knocking engine, or blown rings will sell for next to nothing. Most crates are under $3000.00... below is that 22R some of the guys have been talking about. I think it would look good in a late 80's 4runner....
Just a thought

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk95/slowz1k/Engine1.jpg

[Possom]

Just an FYI on the 22r crate engines. The new blocks they are manufacturing are made in china and Taiwan. They aren't nearly as reliable as the old Japanese blocks. Your better off in the long run to find a Japanese block and have someone rebuild it with quality Japanese parts. One of my yotas is a dedicated offroad toy and all I ever use in it is Japanese parts.

[Taz Baby]

Here is what I am wanting. But still checking out the reviews on it.
http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Toyota/2011-Toyota-FJ_Cruiser-SUV_Image-016.jpg

Here are some reviews
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/fj-cruiser/2011/consumer-reviews.html?sub=suv

[bacpacker]

That is the Fj. My wife wants one too. I like them, but they aren't cheap.

[Taz Baby]

Here is the paint scheme I want for my FJ

http://www.organizingla.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/22/2006_h3_camo.jpg

[Taz Baby]

That is the Fj. My wife wants one too. I like them, but they aren't cheap.

used is better but you have to go over it with a fine tooth comb. I have a car that I can use for a trade in. A 2001 Chrysler Cirrus Forrest green.

[bacpacker]

I don't mind used, but like OS and I were discussing earlier in this thread. The early years of this model FJ had some issues. If you are considering used, I would recommend getting on a FJ forum and checking into these issues and what years they affected. I'm a member of a Tundra fourm and some folks have disucssed the FJ problems there at different points. It is a very popular ride, but there are things to make yourself aware of. Like most cars I would assume.

[Onestep]

Here's the forum link:

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/

[izzyscout21]

If I were to get an FJ, I would want the TRD model with the solid paint scheme......black, tan, and the OD color all look super sharp

[Onestep]

Me too Izzy. I like them but am leary due to problems they had in the beginning.
plus, like I stated we have the Tahoe so a truck is probably a better choice for us.
Now when the Tahoe dies, I will take a closer look at them.

[Willie51]

I've never been a GM guy, but I love my Avalanche. It drives like a SUV (well it should since it's on a Suburban chasis), but has the bed for hauling when I need it. Also, being a 4x4, it is flat towable behind the motorhome and tows my boat or trailers really well too. I had a Honda Ridgeline before that which was an awesome little truck, but it was not flat towable behind the motorhome, so I gave it to my son and bought the Avalanche. It gets 18 to 19 mpg on the highway (same as Honda Ridgeline) but when towing the boat it gets 14 mpg :(. I have 112K miles on it and I need to get 200+ without nickel and dimeing me to death....we'll see. :)

[Evolver]

Going back to the Jeep Cherokee... I've owned 3, The first was the 2.8 (AMC) back in the 80's and was nothing but problems so I sold it and didn't want anything to do with the Jeep Cherokee ever again. When I was contemplating my replacement my dad told me that when GM took over AMC and introduced the 4.0L (in-line 6) to the package it made the package complete. At the time I loved everything about the Cherokee but was disappointed with it's dependability so I bought a used 4.0 and was very happy with it so much so when the driver seat wore out I traded it in for another. The family was growing and our camping and road trips required more room so I then bit the bullet and up graded to a 1/2 ton Suburban.

I put on a 4'' lift and ran 35''x10'' and could go anywhere that the wife would let me go and the MPG avg was 10 But... It was an enclosed truck with all the room under air that you can get. With the seats folded down two can sheep very comfortably (with a the doors locked) and your not as limited to what you can carry or tow. So... I now have down graded to a Tahoe, it's nice but all and all I would sacrifice MPG for size and function for a dependable 4x4 vehicle.

I say trade the Tahoe in for a used Suburban, put a lift on it so you can run a taller pizza cutter type tire that's your wife's week day driver and get you a used 30 mpg+ commuter car. :) JMO

[Onestep]

Willie, I had an Avalanche too. Great ride and very comfy but the "bed" was too small for any size fishing rod and removing/replacing the back seat panel was a pain in the butt.
Evo, the Tahoe has 166K miles on it so trade in value is minimal at best. It's been very dependable (knock on wood). It's as big as we need, has Goodrich AT's, brush guard & running lights but its 2WD which is it's only down side. But it's big enough to sleep in as well (done it).
I'm leaning towards a truck but don't know if I should concentrate on a smaller or full size model. Decisions, decisions...

[Sniper-T]

That's an easy decision... do you 'regularly' haul enough stuff to warrant the size of a full size box?

With a couple fairly cheap suspension mods, I turned my 1/4 ton tacoma into a reliable 2000# hauler.

If I want to haul a sheet of plywood it sits up on the wheel wells.

If I want to haul my Sled, it sits up on one wheel well

The back seat in a tacoma, is essentially a stuff holder (extended cab), it does have flip down seats, but no one but a kid could be comfortable.

2 people good, 3... cozy! (make sure at least one is female, preferably cute)

[Willie51]

Willie, I had an Avalanche too. Great ride and very comfy but the "bed" was too small for any size fishing rod and removing/replacing the back seat panel was a pain in the butt.


I agree with you about the fishing rods. Since I only use one piece rods, this is a pain and I have to put them up in the cab. I thought that when I do have to replace the Avalanche, I will go to a Suburban or a good used Excursion (diesel).

[Sniper-T]

Do you not have roof racks on your Avalanches down there? A buddy has one, and uses 1 pc rods. he just straps the rod case down to the roof rack

[Willie51]

Do you not have roof racks on your Avalanches down there? A buddy has one, and uses 1 pc rods. he just straps the rod case down to the roof rack

Many folks here do have roof racks, but I do not. Sometimes the dealers will not order them with roof racks when spec-ed out with a sun roof and that's what I have. It's funny, I was just talking to the wife about going down to the local chevy dealer to see what one would cost so we could haul the kayaks on top instead of in the bed. That would also solve my fishing rod issue too. BTW, I lied earlier when I said I only use one piece rods. I forgot that my surf rods are three piece because they are 12' and 14' long, but that is only about 5% of my fishing life.

[Gunfixr]

I prefer a fullsize. Yes, they lack the MPG, but they have pretty much the rest.
You have plenty of space, and plenty of power for both towing and pushing.
You mentioned that you wanted 4x4 capability. You also mentioned 3000# towing, but figured your 4x2 can handle that.
What if you want to take that 3000# off-road?

For awhile, it will most likely be easier to creatively find gas, than to create more power. Once all the gas is gone, MPG won't matter anymore.
At least that's my take on it.